FILE FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCY OR PERPETUAL 90 DAY VISA ?

[Eduardo de la Mancha]

I have been asked this question lately. I reviewed the comments under Visa, Permanent Residency and Citizenship threads and there do not appear to be a full treatment of this question. I am, therefore, posting my take on this subject. It may be helpful to someone.

I think there are good reasons for filing for permanent residency status, whether one intends or live here for good, or intermittently.

1. Convenience.

The way it works now, is that once you file for permanent residency, you automatically become a de-facto resident while your application is in process. The term here is "En Tramite". You are no longer subject to the 90 day visa rule. This gives you some flexibility in your timing of entry and exit. (Note however, that when you are "en tramite" you still have to get an entry and exit document for a nominal fee);

2. Costs Savings.

If you plan on coming and going multiple times during a year, then you have to renew your tourist visa each time. The cost for this is quite negligible, I understand. The cost burden is in the transport in and out of Uruguay, say to Buenos Aires, which is the favorite temporary destination for this purpose (By Buquebus or Plane, around $200 round trip each time), and the accommodation cost while in BA. Depending your comfort level, this could be hefty;

3. Ease of Application.

The application filing fee is minimal. As a complete stranger in a new Country, we get intimidated by horror stories of the application process. This was probably true in the past, and still true in some jurisdiction (Montevideo). Now, you can just drop in and file your application in Maldonado Migraciones office. There is no need for appointment. Of course you still have to meet the same documentation requirements (Extensively expounded in the threads). However, even if your documentation is not complete but meets the basic requirements for filing, then you are immediately an en-tramite de-facto resident. If your application is not approved for lack of complete documentation you will remain in this limbo status in perpetuity. Unless the process changes of course. So, even if you are not sure about your residency intent for now, you enjoy two advantages (a) You get to stay or go whenever you please, and (b) If in the future you decide to stay, your paperwork is already started;

4. Slow but fair and clean process.

As far as I know, the residency process is clean. There is no need for an "insider" to fast-track your application. There is no need to bribe anybody. It does take some time for some kind of decision to be handed out. There is really no compelling reason to use a Facilitator for filing your application. As Newbies we tend to go this route. There are pros and cons on this. But quite often this route will cost you money, delay the process, and cause you aggravation. If you decide to go the Facilitator route for convenience, make sure you engage a good one. Some of the recommendations in the related threads may not be appropriate anymore. Time changes, people changes, performance changes over time.

In summary my answer to this question is this: If you are unsure about your residency intention in Uruguay, you are still better off filing for permanent residency.

Get the basic documents required, file it in Maldonado (There may be other hospitable jurisdictions as well) by yourself, or with someone who can speak the language, get your filing number, and let the process take its course. Depending on your intention, you may or may not care about the outcome of your application, but that's okay too.

Eduardo de la Mancha

[arrancopelito]

I held a 90 day visa for six years in Turkey, an expired 6-month business visa in the U.S. for over 5 years, and a cancelled journalist visa for one year in Brazil while working as a journalist, so I´ve been on all sides of this issue.

The reason I chose to remain a tourist in Turkey was that I was afraid of giving a police state green light to treat me as one of their own. I felt safer as a tourist.

I don´t see that downside here. Also, financially, as the big bullies tighten the screws of international money transfers, it might help to be an established resident, rather than a "suspicious" tourist with no official "roots." The way things are going, any excuse is good for governments to increase control on capital flows, and for financial institutions to cover their butts and make our lives more complicated.

[Sara]

I think I may try Eduardo's recipe for residency: no facilitator/consultant, lots of patience, and do the "tramite" it in Colonia or Maldonado.

RE the cost of going to BA: Colonia Express goes there for an unbelievable TEN DOLLARS from Colonia, but from Montevideo is a lot more expensive: NINETEEN DOLLARS. These are round ticket prices - real fares, no bait and switch gimmicks. Internet only, three-week advance purchase.

My daughter took CE and said it was all right. The ferry is smaller than Buquebus but comfortable enough - it even has a mini-freeshop. It leaves from Buenos Aires' slightly crummy Dock Sud, about ten blocks South of the posh Buquebus terminal, but at those prices I can take a lot of crumminess.

http://www.coloniaexpress.com/ar/tarifas.aspx (Spanish only)

Sara

[Fuzzybill]

WOW! That sure beats what I paid the last time. We'll certainly give CE a shot when we get down

[loei]

2. Costs Savings.

If you plan on coming and going multiple times during a year, then you have to renew your tourist visa each time. The cost for this is quite negligible, I understand. The cost burden is in the transport in and out of Uruguay, say to Buenos Aires, which is the favorite temporary destination for this purpose (By Buquebus or Plane, around $200 round trip each time), and the accommodation cost while in BA. Depending your comfort level, this could be hefty;

I used to do it by means of mid week day excursions aboard the Colonia Express. If you book in advance its only 30 and a bit U$S.

Patrick.

[Dr Bosque]

I have heard that the process is considerably less painful in Maldonado than MVD. I have not heard that if you live in Canelones you can just waltz into Maldonado and apply there.

I agree there's no need to hire a specialist, any more than there's a need for a specialist to fix your computer or your car, or wire your house. Or pump your septic system, for that matter. Even knowing nothing, you can learn how to do these things yourself, and can even do it with instructions in a foreign language. You won't end up saving time, and you may not end up saving money.

So far impressed - after our first foray into Montevideo with our 'insider,' we accomplished what I can only guess would have taken the better part of a week and several trips if I had to figure it out on my own...not to mention getting blood samples drawn even though the staff was on strike. That's worth something, I think.

[Eduardo de la Mancha]

Dr. Bosque:

"I have heard that the process is considerably less painful in Maldonado than MVD. I have not heard that if you live in Canelones you can just waltz into Maldonado and apply there."

Yes you can. My application contact address/number was for Montevideo but filed in Maldonado. After filing the documents still go to Montevideo to be processed.

So far impressed - after our first foray into Montevideo with our 'insider,' we accomplished what I can only guess would have taken the better part of a week and several trips if I had to figure it out on my own...not to mention getting blood samples drawn even though the staff was on strike. That's worth something, I think.

I posted somewhere before, a step by step account of how I got my Health exam, tetanus shots etc done in a couple of hours in Maldonado, and the Carta de Salud the following night, I think. All by myself, barely understandable in Spanish, but fully armed with smiles and nods. (See viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1990&p=19448#p19448)

Eduardo de la Mancha

[arrancopelito]

What I would add to second Eddie in this issue is that the only difficulty is in securing all the documents in your country of origin or issuance. That's the catch.

Anything that happens here is very straightforward, there's no science to it, and the person accompanying you in case you do not speak the language is only there to be told "He missed bringing x, y or z" or "Everything is OK" or "Please add X, y or Z to this file while we process it".

That is followed by a few follow up calls or visit, where they they tell you at what stage your application is.

But nothing happens at that office that requires any particular skill or knowledge beyond the language skill and knowing how to take a number. As I said, it's all in getting the right papers, with the stamps they want (as discussed extensively in this forum) before you arrive in Uruguay.

During my husband's proceeding our attorney or accountant or whomever had not followed immigration specs in preparing a sworn statement about our company, and that was turned back but still the proceeding was filed, pending attachment of the updated sworn statement. The other misshap was that the law changed in the middle of my husband's application (to fast-track spouses of citizens) and so he was sent back to square one when he was almost done. None of those issues required any specialized knowledge or skill either.

[Dr Bosque]

Yes you can. My application contact address/number was for Montevideo but filed in Maldonado. After filing the documents still go to Montevideo to be processed.
I posted somewhere before, a step by step account of how I got my Health exam, tetanus shots etc done in a couple of hours in Maldonado, and the Carta de Salud the following night, I think. All by myself, barely understandable in Spanish, but fully armed with smiles and nods. (See http://www.sociedadsouthron.net/forums/ ... 448#p19448)

Eduardo de la Mancha[/quote]

That's impressive - thanks for the link.

[Eduardo de la Mancha]

Dr. Bosque, you also said:

"I agree there's no need to hire a specialist, any more than there's a need for a specialist to fix your computer or your car, or wire your house. Or pump your septic system, for that matter. Even knowing nothing, you can learn how to do these things yourself, and can even do it with instructions in a foreign language. You won't end up saving time, and you may not end up saving money."

I mentioned that a Specialist or Facilitator is not unavoidably needed for two reasons:

(1) The person who asked me the question was unsure if filing for Permanent Residency is advantageous. So his question involved time/Cost benefit components. My answer responded to this issue; and also

(2) My personal experience with a highly recommended Facilitator in this forum. Yes. Yes. I am just like you and other newbies, we are willing to pay for some convenience. My permanent residency is approved, but my Cedula application is still in limbo (it is somewhat complicated, involving non-correspondence between my current documents and birth certificate name, due to judicial name change a long way back). My Facilitator informed me that this can be remedied via Uruguay Court process, for $700 Lawyers fee, and 3,000 pesos incidentals and 3 - 6 months wait.

I thought this was somewhat high for this type of work. So, I wanted a second opinion from another lawyer of my choice who is also close to me in PDE. For this I would need the documents I have so that a proper assessment can be done.

I requested the documents from my Facilitator. He has so far refused to give them back to me. No explanations. And he has gone incommunicado. In effect he has taken hostage of my documents. I know of another document hostage taking by this facilitator here in PDE.

I should be more pissed than I am now. But, fortunately I had the foresight to have two complete sets of authenticated documents with me, so the harm in terms of time, effort, and money is greatly reduced in my case. The other victim will have to restart the document gathering from scratch.

must be "... worth something".

Let me paraphrase that to "must have cost something" in Mastercard haiku format:

For feeding my Facilitator: $200;
For payment to my Facilitator for a job half done: $800;
For my Facilitator taking my documents hostage: Priceless

Eduardo de la Mancha